Centennial Airport Noise

I spoke recently with Mark Davidson, the attorney who successfully represented Park Hill in their class-action lawsuit against Stapleton airport. He told me what we are all starting to understand: Taking legal action against the airport is the only effective method for mitigation the noise problem. The negative effects of airplane noise on health have been well-documented in several university studies. There is now plenty of evidence to prove the detrimental effects of unwanted noise.

If enough citizens mobilize, there could be real change at Centennial Airport.

About Noise: This airport cares little about the neighborhoods around it, despite what they are saying. The Roundtable installation is yet another attempt to stall any progress and delay any decisions. Hopefully it will take the Roundtable members not years realizing that!

Very nice site!

Thank you, Ace, for that helpful analysis. You suggested I should have done more research before buying my home. Perhaps you missed the part wherein I described consulting the airport influence district map only to see we were several miles from its boundaries? We do not live particularly close to the airport, either - approx. 5 miles. Prior to moving to Denver, we lived within several miles of the Colorado Springs airport. The noise was minimal. Same goes for the home we had on the east coast.

I don't recall suggesting the airport be closed. What gave you that impression? I only said that I feel, based on the number of aircraft we receive, the airport influence district boundaries may not reflect the actual noise levels. Not surprisingly, the results of the monitoring I had done shows that we could easily be within the 55 dnl range. Of course, I should have had that monitor installed before we bought the house. How foolish.

Thanks in advance for reading posts a bit more carefully next time before making snide comments. Why are you even on this website, anyway? You clearly have no problem with airplane noise. Lucky you.




I understand that you moved in next to an airport and now you expect the laws of nature and physics to change so you don't hear airplane noise over your home. If you want to be upset at somebody how about the city planners and the home builders who greeds allowed your neighborhood to be built so close to a active airport.

How about looking at your own lack of research when you bought your home and didn't bother to research what living next to a airport would be like. I am sympathetic to your concerns but what you are asking for may not even be possible. Closing the airport is not an option even if you wish it so and airplanes are noisy machines.

I could go point by point addressing your concerns but I don't think it would do any good. Centennial airport is a vital part of the Denver economy and trains hundreds of future pilots every year. While we try the best we can to not impact those who chose to live under a airport zone there is only so much we can safety do.
[/ace007]

Thank you, Ace, for that helpful analysis. You suggested I should have done more research before buying my home. Perhaps you missed the part wherein I described consulting the airport influence district map only to see we were several miles from its boundaries? We do not live particularly close to the airport, either - approx. 5 miles. Prior to moving to Denver, we lived within several miles of the Colorado Springs airport. The noise was minimal. Same goes for the home we had on the east coast.

I don't recall suggesting the airport be closed. What gave you that impression? I only said that I feel, based on the number of aircraft we receive, the airport influence district boundaries may not reflect the actual noise levels. Not surprisingly, the results of the monitoring I had done shows that we could easily be within the 55 dnl range. Of course, I should have had that monitor installed before we bought the house. How foolish.

Thanks in advance for reading posts a bit more carefully next time before making snide comments. Why are you even on this website, anyway? You clearly have no problem with airplane noise. Lucky you.




I understand that you moved in next to an airport and now you expect the laws of nature and physics to change so you don't hear airplane noise over your home. If you want to be upset at somebody how about the city planners and the home builders who greeds allowed your neighborhood to be built so close to a active airport.

How about looking at your own lack of research when you bought your home and didn't bother to research what living next to a airport would be like. I am sympathetic to your concerns but what you are asking for may not even be possible. Closing the airport is not an option even if you wish it so and airplanes are noisy machines.

I could go point by point addressing your concerns but I don't think it would do any good. Centennial airport is a vital part of the Denver economy and trains hundreds of future pilots every year. While we try the best we can to not impact those who chose to live under a airport zone there is only so much we can safety do.
[/ace007]

CR resident says...
Ace007, could you suggest anything where the training flights could go? Maybe open space? i-25? E470? DIA? I am no expert, so I can't really tell what options there are.

Flight training for the most part consists of three phases:

1. Pattern work is usually done at the local airport which involves for the most part learning to land and take off. A student pilot might have to complete 30-100 landings before their instructor feels they are proficient enough to do it by themselves or solo as we call it. This type of work needs to be done at the airport itself since it requires a runway.

Practice Area work: Maybe a bad name for it but this is typicially the student learning how to manuver the airplane away from the airport. Things like learning emergency procedures and recovering from stalls are done over more rural areas at 2000-4000 feet about the ground. For Centennial this is usually over by Chatfield Res. or down South in the rural areas between Franktown and Kiowa.

Cross Countries: This is usually the last phase of training where the student learns to leave the local area, plan cross country flights, and execute the plan first with a instructor and then solo by themselves.

The first phase is probably what creates the largest noise issues but unfortunately it has to be done at the airfield. They don't allow little planes out at DIA and some of the other GA (General Aviation) fields around Denver have some of the same noise issues as Centennial.

The pilot community will continue to look for ways to minimize our noise foot print across the ground but our options are limited when neighborhoods are placed in the approach and departure paths of the runways that have been there long before the neighborhoods were there.

Ace007, could you suggest anything where the training flights could go? Maybe open space? i-25? E470? DIA? I am no expert, so I can't really tell what options there are.

Congress has been attempting to pass a Quiet Communities Act for almost ten years now. The bill would reinstate the EPA's Office of Noise Control and Abatement, and give the EPA power to do their own environmental noise studies. Currently, the FAA has the final say on all aircraft operations- community concerns are sacrificed in favor of promoting aviation. In fact, when airports attempt to make changes to create quieter operations, the FAA often overrides them. The EPA would be a federal entity that would balance the FAA's power. Citizens who believe in their right to quiet living need to write their senators and ask them to re-propose this bill. With a democratic majority in the senate, the bill probably has a better chance of passing than it has in 10 years.

CR resident says...
Centennial Airport, please stop flying your training aircraft over our neighborhoods!

Where do you expect them to go?

Centennial Airport, please stop flying your training aircraft over our neighborhoods!

Katerbrig says...
Ace-
I completely understand your point about the altitude requirements for planes taking off and landing at the airport. My main complaint is not that the pilots are intentionally trying to create noise for the residents. (The noise is just a result of managing a lot of traffic at several surrounding airports.)

Rather, I feel that the airport misrepresents the impact it has on neighborhoods within the vicinity of the airport. If you look at the airport's website, you will see they have established boundaries which designate which areas are within an airport influence district. We purchased a home that is not part of the district, but we still experience a tremendous amount of noise. As I mentioned in my earlier post, hundreds of planes fly directly over our house on a daily basis. It's excessive by any standards. Had our neighborhood been included in the influence district, we could have made an informed decision on the purchase of our house.

We are actually working with the airport to have a noise monitor installed in our yard to quantify the aircraft noise. I will be very surprised if the results show that we receive less noise than the influence districts.

Katerbrig,

I am in no position to make changes to the traffic patterns out of APA other then my own flying but I am curious about where your house is. What cross streets is your house at? I'm be curious to look it up on the map.

I'm going to go off on a tangent for a bit but I think part of the issues are a lack of understanding on both sides. Airports used to be very open community resources. Parents could bring their kids out to hang out at the field and watch the airplanes come and go. People could actually see what was going on and maybe even get to experience the joy of flight. Unfortunately with the govt going over board with security airports have become foriegn entities that those outside do not understand and many times dislike.

I am not a rich person although I am probably right smack in the middle of middle class. I took up flying about 5 years ago to fullfill a lifelong dream. I rent a airplane since owning one would be much too expensive. I fly not only for fun but also for the utility of it. I have family down south of Albuquerque. In the plane I can turn a 7-8 hour car ride with the kids in to a nice 3 hour plane ride.

I like most other pilots like nothing better than to share the gift of flight. I have taken up dozens of friends and neighbors in the plane to let them experience what it is like and maybe gain a better understanding of what those little planes are doing buzzing around up there.

There are also different events during the year out at the airport that I would urge you to attend. The next one to come to mind is the visit of a restored B-17 bomber that will be here next month and will be giving rides to people. Many people buying the rides are WWII vets who flew as crew members on the B17s during the war. During that event they will also be offing free airplane rides to kids age 7-17 and sometimes if there is room a parent can come along. http://www.b17.org/tour/

SB-CR says...
Bob, or Ace007, or whatever your name is, you are missing the point.

I understand that you moved in next to an airport and now you expect the laws of nature and physics to change so you don't hear airplane noise over your home. If you want to be upset at somebody how about the city planners and the home builders who greeds allowed your neighborhood to be built so close to a active airport.

How about looking at your own lack of research when you bought your home and didn't bother to research what living next to a airport would be like. I am sympathetic to your concerns but what you are asking for may not even be possible. Closing the airport is not an option even if you wish it so and airplanes are noisy machines.

I could go point by point addressing your concerns but I don't think it would do any good. Centennial airport is a vital part of the Denver economy and trains hundreds of future pilots every year. While we try the best we can to not impact those who chose to live under a airport zone there is only so much we can safety do.

Ace-
I completely understand your point about the altitude requirements for planes taking off and landing at the airport. My main complaint is not that the pilots are intentionally trying to create noise for the residents. (The noise is just a result of managing a lot of traffic at several surrounding airports.)

Rather, I feel that the airport misrepresents the impact it has on neighborhoods within the vicinity of the airport. If you look at the airport's website, you will see they have established boundaries which designate which areas are within an airport influence district. We purchased a home that is not part of the district, but we still experience a tremendous amount of noise. As I mentioned in my earlier post, hundreds of planes fly directly over our house on a daily basis. It's excessive by any standards. Had our neighborhood been included in the influence district, we could have made an informed decision on the purchase of our house.

We are actually working with the airport to have a noise monitor installed in our yard to quantify the aircraft noise. I will be very surprised if the results show that we receive less noise than the influence districts.

Bob, or Ace007, or whatever your name is, you are missing the point.

This is about an airport that does not take seriously the noise impact it has on its surrounding neighborhoods
This is about a noise office that has no power to changing anything
This is about a CAC meeting or Roundtable that has no positive impact whatsoever
This is about a Board of Commissioners ignoring 400 (officially) impacted households and downplaying the issue
This is about poor planning and misinforming / not informing people buying houses in Southwest Denver
This is about cargo planes blasting over homes in the middle of the night waking up people
This is about jets blasting over houses without considering what's under them when they take off or land
This is about training schools flying over quiet neighborhoods in 5 minute intervals
This is about what real airports call PLANNING and this airport just forgot to DO

That's all!

Katerbrig says...
Several people on this website have commented that they don't have any sympathy for those who purchase homes near an airport and subsequently suffer from the noise. Prior to purchasing our home we researched the airport to determine how much the noise might impact our lives. Our house is not located within the Airport Influence District and is quite a distance from Centennial Airport. Because the runways are oriented north/south, and we are east of the airport, it seemed unlikely we would have an excessive amount of noise.

However, like many of the people who live in Castle Rock, we receive a considerable amount of noise from Centennial Airport. Some days we have hundreds of planes fly directly over our home at a relatively low altitude. The noise is a disruption even with the windows closed.

Because we are not located along the flight pattern for the airport, we shouldn't have this issue.

I wanted to comment about min and max altitudes aircraft have to fly around Centennial airport. The runways at Centennial are at 5800 ft MSL. Pattern altitude which is the alt that aircraft must fly it when in the near vicinity of the airport is 1000' up at 6800ft. Up above Centennial lies the overlying airspace from DIA @ 8000 feet. So generally if an aircraft is coming in to land at Centennial they have to come down to 6800 ft until they are in a position to land. When they take off they generally have to stay below 7500 ft MSL (to provide a buffer for DIAs airspace) until they get about 5 miles away from the airport heading south or generally away from the center of DIA. Once the training aircraft get far enough away then they can climb up to 8500 or 9500 ft MSL depending upon what they are doing. My point in for those of you in the neighborhoods surrounding Centennial is that there are strict regulations for the altitudes the aircraft fly at. They need to stay a min of 1000 feet up over congested areas until they are in a position to land but they need to stay below 7500 until they are a good bit away from the airport to stay out of DIAs airspace. Trust me.. altitude is a pilots friend but we also have rules about how high we can stay above your houses in the Denver area. This is also true in all other cities that have a major airport.

"The vast majority of people recognize that when you move next to train tracks, you'll have to put up with train noise," he said. "When you move next to a highway, you'll have to put up with traffic noise. When you move next to an airport, you'll have to put up with aircraft noise and accept that reality."

Several people on this website have commented that they don't have any sympathy for those who purchase homes near an airport and subsequently suffer from the noise. Prior to purchasing our home we researched the airport to determine how much the noise might impact our lives. Our house is not located within the Airport Influence District and is quite a distance from Centennial Airport. Because the runways are oriented north/south, and we are east of the airport, it seemed unlikely we would have an excessive amount of noise.

However, like many of the people who live in Castle Rock, we receive a considerable amount of noise from Centennial Airport. Some days we have hundreds of planes fly directly over our home at a relatively low altitude. The noise is a disruption even with the windows closed.

Because we are not located along the flight pattern for the airport, we shouldn't have this issue.

We live at the north end of Castle Rock, many miles away from the airport. Our area has been selected as one of the prime training locations for Centennial Airport. On some days we are now getting 100+ overflights of low-flying, noisy training aircraft from Centennial Airport. This is unbearable. Hardly five minutes go by without an airplane flying low and loud over our neighborhood. Although this might be legal, we still think the airport and its flight schools have a moral obligation to minimize the impact they have on other people’s lifes. We are asking them to backing off flying constantly over our neighborhood and finding new areas where they can train without impacting people who are trying to relax from a stressful life. We respect the needs of the airport, in return we ask the airport to respect our needs as well! <br> <br>

member comment: <br> <br>Throughout our lives commercial and private pilots that we have met have been very serious about flying. They have shown a maturity that attests to their support for the rules and regulations associated with the aviation community; however, those that are associated with Centennial Airport display just the opposite. Their behavior while flying over our homes is more like children at play. Their concern for the safety of those of us on the ground is non existent. <br> <br>Arapahoe County has blindly provided business licenses to companies that are a constant safety hazard and nuisance to residential neighborhoods; then they play dumb, like it’s not their fault that we have dangerous training flights conducted over our children. In just the last month aircraft from Centennial Airport have crashed on their runway, crash landed just four miles from our homes and another crashed near homes that resulted in the death of the pilot. <br> <br>I don’t believe anyone in our community thinks there will come a day when we have no aircraft blasting over our homes, but they do look forward to the day when we can actually go outside of our homes for more than five minutes without a noisy plane flying over. Centennial Airport, FAA and Arapahoe County practices and procedures lack community concern and must be changed. <br>